REGISTER   |   LOGIN   |   HELP
Home  |  Blogs  |  Message Boards  |  Webinars  |  Resources |  By Channel
John Barnes

The Landslide That Wasn't: A Lesson in Distributions

NO RATINGS
1 saves
View Comments: Newest First | Oldest First | Threaded View
Page 1 / 2   >   >>
John Barnes
User Rank
Blogger
Re: one more thing
John Barnes   11/20/2012 9:09:25 AM
NO RATINGS
Louis, I'd say they saw the ground but not the implications. Kind of like recognizing that "well it's a high scoring game, we are only down by a touchdown and a field goal, and there is still five minutes on the clock" but then not getting to the conclusion "we have to play it out but we are almost certain to lose." Not so much ignoring the facts -- the polls were very accurate this time -- but refusing to see what the facts meant, and instead insisting on just repeating whichever facts made you happiest.

Louis Watson
User Rank
Blogger
Re: one more thing
Louis Watson   11/20/2012 1:47:42 AM
NO RATINGS
I see what you are saying John, so is it safe to say republican pollsters simply did not understand what the underlying meaning of the distribution was in reality ?   And if this was the case, how can seasoned campaign managers make such a colossal blunder ?  Objectivity lost to partisan politics ?   Well, of course it was.

But I think it goes to what you and @rbaz were discussing earlier in this thread, the fact that the media has skew reality to such a degree, couple that with a Media pool that is at best passive and non-confrontational  produces outcomes  such as this past election.  Am I the only one who thought this (the election) was over by half-time ?   

I have always held a heathly disdain for polls (especially national elections) because they tend to repeat themselves in flow ( meaning regardless of all the other polls before the one just before voting will most often be deemed a "close race").   I have yet to see one in my lifetime where this pattern veered too far from this formula, which is a major reason I have no use for polls. As far as I am concerned yet again Polls and Polling  did not reflect what is really going on " on the ground'.

I just can't believe this simple fact was missed by many so called experts. 

John Barnes
User Rank
Blogger
Re: one more thing
John Barnes   11/20/2012 1:01:17 AM
NO RATINGS
Louis, well, if you understand the thing being represented, that's a pretty good guard against many kinds of folly. And my purpose here is not to teach people how to do the math. There isn't space, time, or interest for that here. The idea is more to get people comfortable with asking for the math and having an idea of what it says when they get it. Kind of like the wine columnist doesn't teach you how to make wine, but what to order when and what to look for.

John Barnes
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Vote 2012 and the Inquisition that failed
John Barnes   11/20/2012 12:54:17 AM
NO RATINGS
Lyndon, I think Krugman did a pretty solid job of explaining too. Another way to look at distributions is to think of them as functions that convert local and specific margins into overall probabilities. But a key point not to be lost is that distributions also apply to forecasting markets, liability, crime, war, sports, any large scale wide participation human activity. I guarantee that someone who is chuckling "silly Republicans" right now will make the same mathematical error themselves within a day. (I hope to reduce the number but I don't think it can be eliminated).

Louis Watson
User Rank
Blogger
Re: one more thing
Louis Watson   11/19/2012 11:26:23 PM
NO RATINGS
Thanks John for explaining in part what happen to republican pollsters with regard to understanding or the lack thereof with respect to distributions.  The method of analysis seems easy enough however many make this kind of mistake whenever this tool is in use.  

I am not sure I understand it completely either,  but I take pride in practicing your 5th tip - Knowing the ground.  This alone can make up for numerous statistical shortcomings IMO.

Lyndon_Henry
User Rank
Blogger
Vote 2012 and the Inquisition that failed
Lyndon_Henry   11/19/2012 10:22:26 PM
NO RATINGS
..

John Barnes writes


Wishful thinking was only a minor factor in the massive, obvious, embarrassing error by conservative pundits who predicted that the 2012 presidential election would be a dead heat or even a Mitt Romney landslide. A profound misunderstanding of statistical distributions caused the humiliation of so many conservative bloggers, journalists, and campaign managers.


 

 

In a sense, the profound failure of GOP election prediction reflects a case of getting caught by their own petard.  Carl Rove's vehement disbelief, witnessed by millions on live TV when Fox News analysts called Ohio for Obama, is iconic, and it seems to reflect a situation of believing the fantasies in the whacko reality you have constructed and led others into.

In another sense, the GOP prediction failure represents a failure of a kind of a 21st-century Inquisition.  The GOP targeted venomous anger against both polls and analysts who dared to use math objectively and read the results that suggested a rather solid Obama victory.  This level of disbelief and rejection of science (math) reminds me of the pressure brought to bear on Galileo, forcing him to deny what his own scientific research and observations were telling him.  Fortunately, for this election, the rightwing Inquisition simply fizzled.

Nate Silver of the NYT's 538 blog, a platform mainly for the presentation of the results of his own political analytics, has been widely hailed for the accuracy of his math-based predictions.  For example, see:

Nate Silver Takes A Victory Lap After Obama Re-election

Here are some interesting quotes:


Silver came through with flying colors, as Obama performed nearly exactly the way he said he would. The public recognition was immediate.

"You know who won the election tonight? Nate Silver," Rachel Maddow said on MSNBC. Even Fox News tipped its cap to Silver.

Others said that the results could force a bit of a sea change in political journalism.

"What does this victory mean?" Mashable's Chris Taylor wrote. "That mathematical models can no longer be derided by "gut-feeling" pundits. That Silver's contention -- TV pundits are generally no more accurate than a coin toss -- must now be given wider credence."


 

Silver, of course, became a particularly hated target of the rightwing anti-science blitz that attempted to portray some kind of mysterious Romney "surge" till the bitter end.

Economist and NYT columnist Paul Krugman discussed much of this (somewhat along the lines of John Barnes's explanation) in a Nov. 4th blog entry:

Math Is Hard

Some of Krugman's interesting points:


First of all, from what I can see a lot of people have trouble with the distinction between probabilities and vote margins. ...

Second, people clearly have a problem with randomness — with the fact that any poll, no matter how carefully conducted, has a margin of error. (And the true margins of error are surely larger than the statistical measure always reported, since sampling error isn't the only way a poll can go wrong). ...

What this means is that if you look at all the polls, you're very likely to find one or two that tell you what you want to hear... even good pollsters will produce an occasional off result, and you really, really don't want to start picking and choosing those off results to make yourself feel good.

...Oh, and a third point: those margins of error are for any one poll. An average of many polls will have a much smaller standard error.


 

 

Callmebob
User Rank
Master Analyst
Back to school.
Callmebob   11/19/2012 3:09:27 PM
NO RATINGS
Thanks for the lesson, Professor Barnes! Probably the only ones at the Romney victory party were hermaphrodites that skew Normalia.

SethBreedlove
User Rank
Data Doctor
Re: one more thing
SethBreedlove   11/17/2012 9:26:40 PM
NO RATINGS
I like that saying. :)   

John Barnes
User Rank
Blogger
Re: one more thing
John Barnes   11/17/2012 9:07:20 PM
NO RATINGS
Seth, accuracy wasn't really an issue here; it's just that when you have successive close-numbers events and one side needs fewer wins than the other, the side that needs fewer wins has a massive advantage. As the IRA communicated to the Queen after a failed assassination attempt, "You have to be lucky every time. We only have to be lucky once."

SethBreedlove
User Rank
Data Doctor
Re: one more thing
SethBreedlove   11/17/2012 7:25:46 PM
NO RATINGS
I saw the articles explaining an 80% chance of winning.  It always amazes me how just a couple of percentage points here and there can cause major events to go in one direction. One state polls may have a large margin of error, but the margin of error is much reduced, however, when you aggregate different polls together, since that creates a much larger sample size.

Page 1 / 2   >   >>
More Blogs from John Barnes
Analysts would do well to get out of the rut of using linear regressions by default.
Sometimes your results require accuracy and sometimes precision. Knowing the difference matters.
Rule-based behavior models offer a good alternative to guesswork and folk wisdom.
Keeping these three words, often jumbled in business discourse, separate and precise can help you be a better decision maker.
Always keep in mind that regression to the means happens — and watch those outliers.
Digital Audio
Latest Archived Broadcast
Companies today must be analytically agile to compete based on their data and analytics.
AllAnalytics Videos
Visual Analytics, Instant ...
Analytics results delivered in visual form are ...

2:06

1 comment
Big Data, Fast Infrastructure
Big data calls for a high-performance analytics ...

3:35

6 comments
Red Hot Analytics
Jayson Tipp, Redbox VP of Analytics and CRM, ...

3:51

3 comments
Hotelier Checks Out Analytics
InterContinental Hotels Group has woven analytics ...

06:55

11 comments
Cartoon
Most recent post: @Broadway   So it worked ?
CARTOON ARCHIVE
Quick Poll
AllAnalytics Video Blogs
Marketing Your Analytics
Humana's Elizabeth Barth-Thacker tells us how her ...

2:21

0 comments
Amazon & Analytics
Amazon has expanded into the world of business ...

3:04

1 comment
The High Price of a Big Banana
There are no analytics to explain the volatility of ...

2:53

8 comments
Fraud Failure
Insurance companies have no excuse not to be using ...

2:26

2 comments
Teaching Users to 'Fish'
Rajeev Kaul, SVP of pricing at OfficeMax, explains ...

2:04

2 comments
Stuck on the Train
Cutting the number of cars on my commuter train was ...

2:22

11 comments
Strength in Numbers
Hear, hear! to the folks who count themselves among ...

1:32

1 comment
Fool's Gold
You don't always find what you want when you data-mine.

1:50

3 comments
Ford Revs Up With Big-Data
In an All Analytics interview, Mike Cavaretta, ...

2:44

2 comments
Get On With It!
Analytics professionals and SAS executives share ...

2:32

1 comment
Power to the Visualization
Analytics professionals who attended SAS's recent ...

2:03

1 comment
Mental Model Lifts Boeing
At Boeing, effective decision making comes down to ...

2:01

2 comments
What Users Want Next
Attendees at the recent SAS Executive Briefing in ...

2:31

4 comments
The Power to Discover
SAS CEO Jim Goodnight talks about new realities ...

3:36

1 comment
Breaking Down Big-Data ...
SAS's Jim Davis talks about how high-performance ...

3:06

0 comments
Live Video
On-demand Video with Chat
Analytics-fueled data visualizations can be a real game-changer when you're exploring the data and assessing results.
Readerboards
Have a question or topic but don't want to write a blog? Post it on our readerboards and get feedback from the community!
5/20/2013 4:05:29 PM
Noreen Seebacher on Cutting edge...or over the edge?
MORE READERBOARDS
Upcoming Events
for the Business and IT Communities
Executive forums with additional hands-on learning opportunities offered around the world
Each ideal for practitioners, Business leaders & senior executives
NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Rockville, San Francisco, Los Angeles/Irvine, Dallas, Atlanta
AllAnalytics on Twitter
AllAnalytics Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook
Point/CounterpointBlog
LEADERS FROM THE BUSINESS AND IT COMMUNITIES DUEL OVER CRITICAL TECHNOLOGY ISSUES

The Current Discussion

Visual Analytics: Who Carries the Onus?
The Issue: Data visualization is an up-and-coming technology for businesses that want to deliver analytical results in a visual way, enabling analysts the ability to spot patterns more easily and business users to absorb the insight at a glance and better understand what questions to ask of the data. But does it make more sense to train everybody to handle the visualization mandate or bring on visualization expertise? Our experts are divided on the question.
The Speakers: Hyoun Park, Principal Analyst, Nucleus Research; Jonathan Schwabish, US Economist & Data Visualizer
MORE POINT/COUNTERPOINT BLOGS
About Us  |  Contact Us  |  Help  |  Register  |  Twitter  |  Facebook  |  RSS


Videos
Visual Analytics, Instant Insight

5|16|13   |   2:06   |   (1) comment


Dynamic data visualizations let analysts and business users interact with the data, changing variables or drilling down into data points, and see results in a flash. Advance your use of data visualization with tools that support features like auto-charting, explanatory pop-ups, and mobile sharing.
Videos
Big Data, Fast Infrastructure

2|14|12   |   3:35   |   (6) comments


No doubt your enterprise is amassing loads of data for fact-based decision-making. Hand in hand with all that data comes big computational requirements. Can traditional IT infrastructure handle the increasing number and complexity of your analytical work? Probably not, which is why you need a backend rethink. Big data calls for a high-performance analytics infrastructure, as Fern Halper, a partner at the IT consulting and research firm, Hurwitz & Associates, discusses here.
Videos
Red Hot Analytics

1|10|12   |   3:51   |   (3) comments


Redbox's bright-red DVD kiosks are all but ubiquitous these days, located in more than 28,000 spots across the country. Jayson Tipp, Redbox VP of Analytics and CRM, provides an insider's look at how the company has accomplished its phenomenal nine-year growth.
Videos
Hotelier Checks In With Analytics

12|14|11   |   06:55   |   (11) comments


InterContinental Hotels Group (IHG), a seven-brand global hotelier, has woven analytics into the fabric of its operations. David Schmitt, director of performance strategy and planning, shares IHG's analytics story and his lessons learned.
Beth Schultz
Marketing Your Analytics

5|14|13   |   2:21   |   (0) comments


Elizabeth Barth-Thacker, a BI and informatics technology manager at Humana, tells us how her team is creating data transparency and building engagement with the business – with the help of an internal collaboration portal called Humanalytics.
Pierre DeBois
Amazon & Analytics

5|7|13   |   3:04   |   (1) comment


With Redshift, Amazon has expanded into the world of business intelligence. Could web analytic solutions for e-commerce be next?
Noreen Seebacher
The High Price of a Big Banana

5|6|13   |   2:53   |   (8) comments


There are no analytics to explain the volatility of banana prices in New York City.
Beth Schultz
Fraud Failure

5|3|13   |   2:26   |   (2) comments


Insurance companies have no excuse not to be using advanced analytics in their fight against fraud.
Beth Schultz
Teaching Users to 'Fish'

5|1|13   |   2:04   |   (2) comments


Speaking at SAS Global Forum Executive Conference, Rajeev Kaul, SVP of pricing at OfficeMax, uses a Chinese proverb to explain one of the reasons he's deploying SAS Visual Analytics.
Noreen Seebacher
Stuck on the Train

4|24|13   |   2:22   |   (11) comments


Cutting the number of cars on my commuter train was an analytics fail, simple as that.
Beth Schultz
Strength in Numbers

4|22|13   |   1:32   |   (1) comment


Hear, hear! to the folks who count themselves among analytics professionals and who will be gathering next week at SAS Global Forum.
Noreen Seebacher
Fool's Gold

4|15|13   |   1:50   |   (3) comments


You don't always find what you want when you data-mine.
Beth Schultz
Ford Revs Up With Big-Data

4|12|13   |   2:44   |   (2) comments


In an All Analytics interview, Mike Cavaretta, technical leader, predictive analytics at Ford Research & Advanced Engineering, shares how big-data is fueling vehicle decisions.
Beth Schultz
Get On With It!

4|11|13   |   2:32   |   (1) comment


Analytics professionals and SAS executives share how organizations can get on with their work so much faster when working in a high-performance and visual analytics environment.
Beth Schultz
Power to the Visualization

4|11|13   |   2:03   |   (1) comment


Analytics professionals who attended SAS's recent Executive Briefing in New York share how they think visual analytics might help their organizations get better value from data.
Beth Schultz
Mental Model Gives Boeing Lift

4|9|13   |   2:01   |   (2) comments


At Boeing, effective decision making comes down to this simple formula: QxA=E, as executive Jerry Allyne explained at the recent INFORMS analytics conference.
Beth Schultz
What Users Want Next

4|8|13   |   2:31   |   (4) comments


Whether working in major league sports, financial services, or healthcare, analytics, and data, professionals are checking out how visual analytics and high-performance technologies can help them optimize their environments, shrink their cycle times, and improve decision making, as attendees at the recent SAS Executive Briefing in New York share with us.
Beth Schultz
The Power to Discover

4|4|13   |   3:36   |   (1) comment


SAS CEO Jim Goodnight speaks with us at a recent SAS Executive Briefing about getting a feel for what's in your big-data and other new realities powered by advanced analytics.
Beth Schultz
Breaking Down Big-Data Barriers

4|4|13   |   3:06   |   (0) comments


Jim Davis, SVP and CMO at SAS, talks with us at a recent SAS Executive Briefing about how high-performance analytics and visual analytics take away the concerns over big-data and let companies get down to business with their data.