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Bryan Beverly

With Big-Data, the Mainframe Specter Rises – Again

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BethSchultz
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Mainframe or HPA?
BethSchultz   10/31/2012 9:40:27 AM
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Hi Bryan, we hear a lot these days about high-performance analytics, using speedy processing techniques like in-database computing, in-memory computing, or grid computing (HPA, of course, is favorite of SAS, this site's sponsor). Do you see organizations making a mainframe or HPA decision?

kicheko
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Re: Mainframe or HPA?
kicheko   10/31/2012 10:08:00 AM
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When i began learning about computers something like 12 years ago, we already learnt about mainframes in the history part of computers and didn't have a place we could go to see an actual mainframe. Its interesting how they've been creeping back to relevance in the wake of big-data since about 2 years ago, something like the return of the dinosaurs and the IBM empire...

PS: i didn't get what HPA stands for.

bkbeverly
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Re: Mainframe or HPA?
bkbeverly   10/31/2012 1:38:01 PM
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HPA - High Performance Analytics - using speedy processing techniques like in-database computing, in-memory computing, or grid computing.  Basically, you make the analytics faster by moving the processing to another location or splitting up the processing across processing nodes.

Hospice_Houngbo
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Re: Mainframe or HPA?
Hospice_Houngbo   10/31/2012 5:54:32 PM
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In-memory computing can indeed speed up data analysis and help companies gain competitive advantages. In-memory computing benefit from the constantly falling price of memory which most organizations can easily afford nowadays. The move to in-memory computing might even become inevitable for certain analytics solutions where entier set of data need to be investigated rather than a representative.

BethSchultz
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Re: Mainframe or HPA?
BethSchultz   10/31/2012 5:48:02 PM
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kichecko -- I remember years ago (more than 12 but I won't say how many!) as a young reporter covering the rapidly changing telecom industry, I had the opportunity to visit an MCI (now long defunct) data center to see its mainframe operations. I knew nothing about computing, but the size was impres sive. Now the smaller the size the more impressive, it seems! I suppose mainframes are more common in US, for example, with more mature markets?

As to HPA -- that's high-performance analytics (analytics run on high-performance computing platforms). SAS, this site's sponsor, has lots of info on HPA to share. If you're interested, you can find out more on its HPA microsite.

kicheko
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Re: Mainframe or HPA?
kicheko   11/1/2012 5:42:53 AM
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Beth, - Thanks for the HPA link. Talking of years back, its actually 14 and not 12 now that i think of it. When i had just joined high school...lol. Whats funny is that upto today i still haven't seen an actual mainframe computer though i've visited a handful of relatively big server rooms locally. I should make it a mission to find out who has a mainframe nearby so that i go and look.

BethSchultz
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Re: Mainframe or HPA?
BethSchultz   11/1/2012 12:16:49 PM
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@kicheko -- You'll have to let us know if you do find one -- and what it's being used for!

bkbeverly
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Re: Mainframe or HPA?
bkbeverly   10/31/2012 1:35:05 PM
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Hi Beth,

Actually, I see organizations making decisions to move away from mainframes for cost reasons and stay away from/move cautiously toward HPA for cost reasons.  There are exceptions like the Census Bureau, which processes huge volumes of data and has licensed most of SAS' products.  But outside of the Census Bureau, shops with legacy applications are trying to migrate productions systems to UNIX servers to save money. Often these same shops have invested in contract labor augmentation vis-à-vis investing in new analytic software such as HPA.  Seasoned contractors with database and analytic skills can mimic the HPA environment without the sponsors having to purchase additional software.  Location is also important.  SAS human capital is abundant between Virginia (Northern) to New Jersey; NESUG is one of the largest conferences. In those areas where talent acquisition is a challenge, organizations lean toward purchasing solutions like HPA.  In short, companies invest in either people or a product line. Acquiring affordable off-shore talent is also a popular option in the effort to migrate from big boxes and high-end solutions.  Traditionally, SAS' did most of its high end solutions in Europe, the Middle East and Asia because the talent pool was sparse.  The US had more analytics talent (as demonstrated by the plethora of users groups).  If shops can get their staffs to design efficient solutions, they will do so (the cost of training is less than expanding the range of licensed products).  But if the younger talent pool has more heterogeneous interests (products beyond analytics), the HPA is seen as the better choice.

mnorth
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Old school
mnorth   10/31/2012 12:28:05 PM
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For those of us who are old school but young at heart, we will concede that the mainframe won't die.  It just keeps getting reinvented.  At the IACIS conference in Myrtle Beach earlier this month, network appliances were demonstrated that enable computer labs or workstation clusters to be set up using virtualization.  Effectively, what was being shown was a new-fangled, Windows-based version of mainframe/terminal architecture.  It was presented as if it were something new, and yet the underlying concepts were exactly the same as whay my dad was doing at Sperry/UNIVAC 40 years ago!  At that same conference, cloud concepts were demonstrated, but you could have pulled the word "cloud" out of the paper and replaced it with "timesharing" and the paper could have just as easily have been written about MIT's 1960's project CTSS.

In my view, there are certain foundational concepts or architectures, if you will, that transcend the passage of time.  The hardware will get faster, more sophisticated, more capable, but the underlying implementation concepts remain largely unchanged.  Certainly there were game-changing technologies that invent their own framework or foundation, but those are few and far between.

That said, there's no shame in building a better mainframe, even if it's not sexy to call it that.

bkbeverly
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Re: Old school
bkbeverly   10/31/2012 2:12:25 PM
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mnorth,

I really admire the managers who oversee the IBM mainframe division.  Those folks have not only technical skills but also exceptional political skills.  They did not get comfortable with their success but saw the advent of the PC and figured out how to protect its product line.  They have set a marvelous example for all of the young turks who think that product longevity rolls in on the wheels of inevitability.  Lotus 123, Visi-Calc, Word Perfect - a lot of products had their 15 minutes of fame.  But the mainframers dug in and made survival a part of the product line. Yes, I was one of those who waited for the demise of the mainframe.  But those folks fought for their job security and kept themselves relevant and are still looking for ways to stay relevant.  That requires technical and political know-how.  They serve as a model for the young product makers of today - find ways of keeping your product relevant - know your business environment - do the R&D - understand what people need - look for ways to integrate your product with other products - stay hungry.  This reminds me of an old saying 'In the jungle, whether you are an antelope or a panther, if you stop running, then you will not survive'.  The IBM mainframe crew have never stopped running - mega kudos to them!

mnorth
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Re: Old school
mnorth   10/31/2012 2:13:53 PM
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@bkbeverly: Amen!  That's all I can say.  Amen.

Callmebob
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Master Analyst
What's old is new again
Callmebob   10/31/2012 12:40:04 PM
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Some things never die. Everyone still has a calculator lying around the house, heck I even have a TI 10-key adding machine I could never part with, particularly helpful during tax season. I'm not surprised that the rust has been scraped off the Big Iron with the rise of Big-Data and the demand for number crunching is heightened. Now, if the power grid can keep pace.

So, what's next? Time to dust off my abacus skills?

BethSchultz
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Re: What's old is new again
BethSchultz   10/31/2012 5:34:58 PM
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@callmebob -- hmmm, I do have to wonder, what in the world makes for a skilled abacus user? Speed of moving the beads, or what?!

Callmebob
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Master Analyst
Re: What's old is new again
Callmebob   11/3/2012 2:44:56 PM
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My wife is Japanese and she grew up using a soroban and she was speed lightening. You can still find many older mom and pop shops and restaurants using them to calculate their customer's bill. Regarding the profile for a skilled abacus user, they should have nimble fingers, a quick brain, and an underlying comprehension of math and numbers. I found this simple virtual soroban that should help anyone's Sudoku skills.

BethSchultz
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Re: What's old is new again
BethSchultz   11/5/2012 9:15:43 AM
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@callmebob, the art of the abacus... i can see this is no kindergarten learning tool! I'm sure it's amazing to watch your wife or other abacus experts in action. I'd be lost, no doubt.

 

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